“[Y]ou could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down.”
-William Bennett
[10:38:13] {ormus} did you see what this William Bennett dude said? stirred up a bit of a storm
[10:38:34] {baal}
[10:38:34] {nulenator} �
[10:38:37] [Last message repeated 3 more times]
[10:39:58] {baal} holy crap
[10:40:01] {baal} well, for good reason it seems
[10:40:54] {ormus} did you read the entirety of what he said?
[10:40:59] {baal} yeah
[10:41:06] {baal} sounds like he tried to cover himself
[10:41:10] {baal} at least a little
[10:41:30] {ormus} i would argue the comment might not be racist
[10:41:42] {baal} you could
[10:41:51] {baal} well
[10:41:51] {baal} maybe
[10:42:00] {baal} basing a generization on race
[10:42:39] {ormus} i wish people would refute comments like that with facts rather than calls of racism, etc.
[10:43:45] {nulenator} we would be better off sterilizing all republicans
[10:43:56] {ormus} that’s racist!
[10:44:05] {baal} too late for me, I’ve already spawned!
[10:44:12] {ormus} i was actually trying to come up with an equivalent like that…
[10:44:23] {baal} not that republicans today stand for anything that they used to when i actually joined the party
[10:44:33] {baal} I don’t think I’ve changed THAT much
[10:45:08] {nulenator} they pretty much always stood for looking after the interests of corporations more than people
[10:45:21] {nulenator} I was at a party the other day when a vocal republic said, ”
[10:45:40] {nulenator} my heart goes out to delta airlines – to see a company struggling like they are”
[10:45:45] {baal} heh
[10:45:48] {nulenator} it’s a f*cking company, dude!
[10:45:54] {nulenator} like it gives a sh*t about you?!
[10:45:56] {ormus} yeah, that’s pretty bad
[10:46:00] {baal} well, it’s more about balance than anything
[10:46:11] {baal} and thigns are definitly swung too far to the corporate side
[10:46:18] {nulenator} corporations were never meant to be ‘super citizens’
[10:46:25] {baal} I’m referring more to the moral stuff
[10:46:35] {nulenator} they can’t vote after all, why can they buy votes?
[10:46:46] {baal} heh
[10:46:57] {baal} well, you can thank our *entire* political system for that
[10:47:06] {nulenator} sure
[10:47:15] * nulenator nulenates the entire government
[10:48:03] {baal} heh
[10:48:13] {baal} honestly I think the dems are just as corrupt
[10:48:27] {ormus} they’re all dirty to an extent, yeah
[10:48:30] {ormus} both parties piss me off
[10:48:32] {baal} they’re just using the outrageous behavior of the republicans to foster rage
[10:48:56] {ormus} R’s are so short-sighted it scares me…and in bed with big biz…the D’s have been reduced to whiners, it seems
[10:49:07] {baal} and the republicans are playing the “moral majority” and “hard workers” against the evil city-dwellers
[10:49:26] {baal} they’re both in bed with business
[10:49:34] {ormus} to an extent, sure
[10:49:39] {ormus} you need campaign money, after all
[10:49:52] {baal} I think our system is set up so when you get to the point that you’re in federal governemnt you’re completely pwned
[10:51:38] {ormus} it’s nothing new
[10:51:46] {baal} definitly not
[10:51:52] {ormus} not much goes on now that doesn’t date back to early 19th century
[10:52:05] {baal} at least had it’s beginnings there
[10:52:12] {ormus} and as i understand it, partisanship was as bad or worse in the early days
[10:52:36] {baal} information is just so available nowdays that it’s hard to ignore 🙂
[10:52:56] {ormus} what annoys me is the opposition taken to a bill or proposal seemingly just because the other party puts it forward
[10:53:06] {ormus} true
[10:53:49] {ormus} but anyway…this Bennett dude…they’re all over him for going into a hypothetical
[10:54:12] {nulenator} that guy should be raked over the coals
[10:54:17] {ormus} in the same sentences he says that it’s not something he advocates
[10:54:21] {ormus} oh, he will be
[10:54:24] {nulenator} good
[10:54:30] {nulenator} hopefully they’ll abort him
[10:54:45] {baal} yeah, he did NOT win any friends there
[10:54:55] {baal} any remark on the leake source identified?
[10:55:11] {ormus} it was a bit extreme, yeah…but it’s so typical we can’t even hold a forum on racial topics without people getting up in arms.
[10:55:25] {ormus} can’t even have a logical discussion without people yelling racism and going home
[10:55:33] {nulenator} oh bullshit
[10:55:55] {nulenator} he’s saying that black people are the cause of all crime!
[10:56:01] {ormus} what if he said the crime rate would go down if all white babies were aborted?
[10:56:13] {ormus} no, he’s saying they’re the cause of a disproportionate amount of crime
[10:56:15] {ormus} not all of it
[10:56:20] {ormus} i dunno if they are or not
[10:56:31] {ormus} but refute it with facts, not crying
[10:56:44] {nulenator} where are his facts?
[10:56:49] {ormus} exactly
[10:56:51] {ormus} call him out on THOSE
[10:57:02] {ormus} all i read people saying is “it’s so insensitive!”
[10:57:11] {ormus} freakin’ go get him, yeah
[10:57:13] {ormus} pull out stats
[10:57:45] {baal} that is definitly a valid point there
[10:58:11] {baal} i can see from an argumentitive point – that you might assume something like that
[10:58:41] {baal} granted, you really should have your ducks in a row before getting on a national radio program
[10:58:59] {nulenator} the problem was instead of saying what he should have, to the effect that poor people cause a disporportionate amount of crime, he turned it racist
[10:59:24] {nulenator} it was a pointless dig on his part
[10:59:26] {nulenator} imo
[10:59:40] {baal} dunno, might be, might not be
[10:59:45] {baal} I can’t imagine he meant to commit political suicide
[11:00:03] {baal} I’m guessing it more came out wrong
[11:00:27] {baal} but, isn’t being black an attribute, much like being poor is an attribute?
[11:01:06] {baal} interestingly enough, I’ll bet if you replaced “black” with “poor” that sentence wouldn’t have gotten near as much attention
[11:01:47] {nulenator} well, the thing is that the correlation with crime lies with poverty, not race
[11:02:21] {baal} dunno
[11:02:44] {nulenator} it appears to lie with race superficially because a disporportionate amount of blacks are poor
[11:03:57] {baal} ah, here we go
[11:04:17] {baal} http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/race.htm
[11:04:21] {nulenator} before ormus yells, here are some studies:
http://scholar.google.com/url?sa=U&q=http://www.jcpr.org/wpfiles/LUDWIGediforweb2-7-2000.PDF
[11:04:29] {baal} oh, shit
[11:04:31] {baal} victim
[11:05:20] {nulenator} that’s by race of victim
[11:05:35] {baal} this is a little old
[11:05:36] {baal} but
[11:05:38] {baal} http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cpracept.htm
[11:05:45] {baal} http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cprace.htm
[11:06:35] {ormus} back
[11:06:41] {ormus} hode up…looking…
[11:07:16] {baal} ah, newer charts
[11:07:51] {ormus} oh geez…i’m gonna have to read that one later, nule
[11:07:58] {nulenator} yeah, a disproportionate number of blacks are in prison, but most people commiting crimes are still white if you look at prison population
[11:08:08] {nulenator} so abort whitey!
[11:08:23] {ormus} WHITE-collar crimes?
[11:08:25] {nulenator} too bad they don’t have a chart of political party by prison population
[11:08:25] {ormus} teehee
[11:08:30] {baal} although correctional population isn’t the best measure
[11:08:34] {nulenator} bet they’re mostly republican
[11:08:54] {ormus} but why is it i find the most intelligent response to his comments in chatthot?
[11:08:58] {ormus} not from politicians?
[11:09:05] {ormus} because they’re all about rhetoric
[11:09:07] {nulenator} sh*t – I sounded intelligent?
[11:09:10] {nulenator} let me correct that
[11:09:14] {ormus} the Dems see a chance to jump down the R’s throats
[11:09:21] {ormus} so they take that
[11:09:28] {ormus} well..potentially intelligent…
[11:09:32] {nulenator} f*ck that asswipe!
[11:09:41] {nulenator} he’s a hater
[11:09:51] {nulenator} i kill all haters
[11:10:25] {ormus} so really he should have said if you want to reduce the crime RATE…
[11:10:30] {ormus} kiddin!
[11:11:05] {baal} http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/p03.pdf
[11:11:13] {baal} i know how much you love PDF’s
[11:11:20] {baal} get down around page 9-12
[11:12:42] {baal} they definitly do form a dissproportionate percentage of prison population
[11:12:57] {nulenator} interesting, blacks overtook whites in the past ten years
[11:13:06] {baal} (which could be used as at least a measuring stick of convicted violent crime)
[11:13:09] {nulenator} why were those lousy darkies slacking before that?!?
[11:13:22] {baal}
[11:13:37] {baal} saying “you can’t do this because of your race” is racist
[11:13:53] {baal} saying “a race is statisticlly more likely to end up in jail” isn’t
[11:14:02] {baal} at least in my mind
[11:14:22] {baal} whites are more likely to commit white collar crime I’m sure
[11:14:30] {baal} that doesn’t bother me any
[11:14:35] {ormus} right, baal
[11:14:44] {nulenator} grr, again, I have to disagree
[11:14:47] {baal} as a matter of fact, I’m sure whites have stolen WAY more money than any other race in this country
[11:14:49] {ormus} well…i am bothered by white collar crime
[11:14:53] {nulenator} if the cause is poverty, blaming race is racist
[11:15:00] {baal} i’m not blaming race
[11:15:01] {ormus} no, not blaming race
[11:15:11] {ormus} it just so happens that there’s a correlation with race, that’s all
[11:15:14] {nulenator} but that’s what he did
[11:15:15] {ormus} not BECAUSE of their race
[11:15:17] {baal} simply pointing out there is a corralation isn’t blaming
[11:15:24] {ormus} i don’t think he necessarily did
[11:15:29] {ormus} then again…i’m not sure he had a clue what he was doing
[11:15:35] {baal} exactly
[11:15:43] {baal} hence my “it came out wrong” statement
[11:15:52] {baal} I can’t believe he meant to say it that way
[11:16:09] {ormus} but don’t you ever feel like people have to tip-toe so delicately around racial situations that meaningful dialogue is hardly ever achieved?
[11:16:17] {baal} yes
[11:16:19] {nulenator} no
[11:16:27] {nulenator} I don’t think it’s that hard to say what you mean
[11:16:47] {baal} i can say white people this and white people that all day long
[11:16:51] {ormus} oh, sure it is…one little slip and they will be on you
[11:16:54] {baal} if I say black people ANYTHING people go nuts
[11:17:00] {ormus} not because of what you MEANT, but because of what you SAID
[11:17:42] {baal} we’ve got a guy here who works in ops
[11:17:58] {baal} who has threatened to sue the company on the basis of racism MULTIPLE times
[11:18:09] {baal} and still has a job here
[11:18:17] {baal} see how long I’m here if I threaten to sue the company
[11:18:31] {ormus} the answer it to acknowledge diversity, not to pretend it doesn’t exist. it’s as if by acknowledging a culture/race/nation’s idiosyncracies you’re being hateful.
[11:18:36] {baal} you can’t SAY the word black around him without a call from HR
[11:18:51] {ormus} granted, getting a little off the whole black/crime thing here…
[11:19:03] {ormus} yeah
[11:19:22] {baal} and there are lots of people that it doesn’t bother a damn bit
[11:19:40] {baal} our cashier lady is super friendly – calls me whitey all the time
[11:19:49] {baal} but I’d never call her blackie or something – i’d get nailed in a heartbeat
[11:19:54] {ormus} right
[11:20:16] {ormus} that kind of inconsistency bugs me…and tells me we’re not really that close
[11:20:20] {ormus} to “equality” or whatnot
[11:20:26] {nulenator} damn, I’m filling up my jdbc pool…
[11:20:30] {ormus} in short, people need to relax
[11:20:37] {baal} it’s like BY our environment being so uppity about such things, we’re unconsciously assigning a negative connotation to even BEING black
[11:20:46] {ormus} yes
[11:20:56] {ormus} as if be even identifying someone as such is racist
[11:20:59] {baal} like “how dare you call me black!”
[11:21:12] {baal} did I say that was a bad thing?
[11:21:23] {baal} did I insinuate that you are bad for being black?
[11:21:24] {baal} no!
[11:21:36] {ormus} so we are supposed to ignore any physical differences (i.e. diversity)…the same diversity that we’re told to celebrate
[11:21:38] {ormus} i don’t get it
[11:21:42] {baal} yeah
[11:21:56] {baal} I think if we acknolwedged our differences and got on with it we’d be much better off
[11:22:15] {baal} but people generally don’t like things to be different
[11:22:27] {ormus} truly
[11:22:31] {ormus} especially R’s
[11:22:32] {baal} they are creatures of habit, they want to see people that look, act, and talk just like they do
[11:22:33] {ormus} (sorry)
[11:22:57] {baal} I don’t think it’s the R’s per se – I think they’re just playing the idiots that can’t handle that we’re diverse
[11:23:16] {baal} IE: born agains, the “moral” majority
[11:23:16] {baal} etc.
[11:23:35] {baal} people that don’t live in socially and economiclly diverse areas
[11:24:03] {baal} and the moral thing picks up some stragglers in the city that think that their inadaquacies are everyone elses fault
[11:24:13] {baal} granted the dems do that to a degree also
[11:25:16] {nulenator} interesting, you do have to .close() a db connection from a pool to release its resources
[11:25:23] {nulenator} didn’t think you were supposed to do that.
[11:28:57] {nulenator} baal – do you know if that’s right?
[11:29:39] {nulenator} yeah, it apparently is…
[11:29:42] {nulenator} interesting
[11:29:59] {nulenator} good thing I found out about that now…